As a writer of long fiction, I have to say I agree with everything here. I no longer feel the necessity to seek out a publisher that accepts stories of length; I write the story that needs to be written, as the story itself dictates. I write with the intention of putting everything I write up on SUBSTACK alone. Rather than becoming published through conventional means, I hope to make this platform that means. Take a look inside. https://benwoestenburg.substack.com
Bravo! I'm doing the same. My Freelan series has reached close to 2.9 million words. Each MS varies according to the story line in it, from the 3-part Freelan: the Dawning (over 600k), to ones less than 80k. The story is the thing. Write until your story is done. Sorry I can't be a paid subscriber to your Substack (I never use my credit card online), but wishing you all the best with your endeavors.
That's okay. I still have my short stories up on my FREE page. The paywall is up for my SERIAL work. I wanted to make sure I always have something FREE to give readers.
Glad to hear it. I think pandering to the Tik Tok generation is fatal. There will always be readers. People who will sit and read a book, just as the majority seeks novel immersion.
Like Ben Woestenburg, I believe stories end up being the length they need to be. It's probably the same for book length, but if some cutting is needed, there is more wiggle room. I recently dropped an 85K down to 75, because that was the publisher's upper limit, and I managed it by trimming a little fat here and there (I doubt my beta readers will spot the difference.) Short stories, I let go wherever. It can go to 6000 or 1500. My sweet spot is between 3 and 4. I test myself from time to time, attempting Shotgun Honey's Gauntlet - a story in less than 700 words. It's challenging, but the results can be exciting. I'm insanely proud of this one, for instance. I'm curious to hear what you think about it... https://shotgunhoney.com/fiction/maybe-i-love-you-by-m-e-proctor/
You raise the topic I will be covering in my next article: chopping down. As for those personal challenges, I also occasionally indulge. Sorta like the little bit I dabble in the kitchen (hubby does most of the cooking here).
The trend towards very short is troubling. Although nothing new. The English author JG Ballard was asked to write short stories in the 2000s, long after the magazine short story heyday, and was delighted to do so. Until he was told about the 2000 word upper limit. For him that was just a vignette. Some of his were upwards of 20,000 words. And all the better for them. Like entire little worlds.
I have one I am going to publish here on Substack that comes in at 12,000 words. I have no doubt I could could get to to a little under 10,000, but why? I think it is fine as is. I am not sure anyone will read it mind you.
I also have another one published here at 1000 words. Hardly anyone read that either, lol.
I'm so frustrated by word limits on lit mag and anthology submissions. I have several stories that would be great fits but exceed those limits. My alternative is to put together a book (or two or three) of my stories. Working on that now.
I am the same. I gave up on magazines. Word limits, strange restrictions, focusing on certain types of people. But the word counts especially. Many believe longer pieces demonstrate lack of discipline. But some of the stories I have enjoyed the most have worked like short novels, immersing me inside a world that takes a little time to build.
I write long-fiction (very long), which is why I've had to follow the examples of my heroes Dumas, Twain & Howard and write serially. I do love having the whole tale completed and finished and publishing that way, and must admit that it can be difficult to keep everything straight when writing longer tales (names are difficult to remember at times) however I much prefer longer stories. I prefer reading long-novels and longer tales, and find typically that shorter ones bore me (there are exceptions).
But that said, I think there is an art to short-stories such as what Howard was able to accomplish. But I do not think everyone has his talent.
That aside, the pressure by more and more lit magazines and sites for shorter, shorter, shorter annoys and angers me some days. I remember some of the 'Iron Age' publishers that sprang up who declared their irritation towards longer tales and their outrage at such ideas as writing longer tales and my own frustration.
Short stories are good practice, but at some point a writer MUST write long-form. They have to test themselves that way, else they'll never progress as artists. And these publishers who claim to fight for the 'culture' and against 'tiktok nonsense' are wishing only for 'Flash fiction' or 'ultra short stories'.
Now that said, a story can get too bloated (I'm very guilty of that) and so it must often be chiselled away as you point out. I seem to be rambling here (lack of sleep), you always manage to hit the nail on the head A.C. Cargill, I have no idea how you do it but even when I disagree with you (I don't here) I find myself thinking you made excellent points and that there was something to be learnt. I must confess to a great deal of admiration for your clear thinking, and level head, and ability to cut to the heart of something. I fancy that there must be several C.S. Lewises (I greatly admire him) or Robert E. Howards in you.
As a writer of long fiction, I have to say I agree with everything here. I no longer feel the necessity to seek out a publisher that accepts stories of length; I write the story that needs to be written, as the story itself dictates. I write with the intention of putting everything I write up on SUBSTACK alone. Rather than becoming published through conventional means, I hope to make this platform that means. Take a look inside. https://benwoestenburg.substack.com
Bravo! I'm doing the same. My Freelan series has reached close to 2.9 million words. Each MS varies according to the story line in it, from the 3-part Freelan: the Dawning (over 600k), to ones less than 80k. The story is the thing. Write until your story is done. Sorry I can't be a paid subscriber to your Substack (I never use my credit card online), but wishing you all the best with your endeavors.
That's okay. I still have my short stories up on my FREE page. The paywall is up for my SERIAL work. I wanted to make sure I always have something FREE to give readers.
Glad to hear it. I think pandering to the Tik Tok generation is fatal. There will always be readers. People who will sit and read a book, just as the majority seeks novel immersion.
Like Ben Woestenburg, I believe stories end up being the length they need to be. It's probably the same for book length, but if some cutting is needed, there is more wiggle room. I recently dropped an 85K down to 75, because that was the publisher's upper limit, and I managed it by trimming a little fat here and there (I doubt my beta readers will spot the difference.) Short stories, I let go wherever. It can go to 6000 or 1500. My sweet spot is between 3 and 4. I test myself from time to time, attempting Shotgun Honey's Gauntlet - a story in less than 700 words. It's challenging, but the results can be exciting. I'm insanely proud of this one, for instance. I'm curious to hear what you think about it... https://shotgunhoney.com/fiction/maybe-i-love-you-by-m-e-proctor/
You raise the topic I will be covering in my next article: chopping down. As for those personal challenges, I also occasionally indulge. Sorta like the little bit I dabble in the kitchen (hubby does most of the cooking here).
The trend towards very short is troubling. Although nothing new. The English author JG Ballard was asked to write short stories in the 2000s, long after the magazine short story heyday, and was delighted to do so. Until he was told about the 2000 word upper limit. For him that was just a vignette. Some of his were upwards of 20,000 words. And all the better for them. Like entire little worlds.
I have one I am going to publish here on Substack that comes in at 12,000 words. I have no doubt I could could get to to a little under 10,000, but why? I think it is fine as is. I am not sure anyone will read it mind you.
I also have another one published here at 1000 words. Hardly anyone read that either, lol.
I'm so frustrated by word limits on lit mag and anthology submissions. I have several stories that would be great fits but exceed those limits. My alternative is to put together a book (or two or three) of my stories. Working on that now.
I am the same. I gave up on magazines. Word limits, strange restrictions, focusing on certain types of people. But the word counts especially. Many believe longer pieces demonstrate lack of discipline. But some of the stories I have enjoyed the most have worked like short novels, immersing me inside a world that takes a little time to build.
I write long-fiction (very long), which is why I've had to follow the examples of my heroes Dumas, Twain & Howard and write serially. I do love having the whole tale completed and finished and publishing that way, and must admit that it can be difficult to keep everything straight when writing longer tales (names are difficult to remember at times) however I much prefer longer stories. I prefer reading long-novels and longer tales, and find typically that shorter ones bore me (there are exceptions).
But that said, I think there is an art to short-stories such as what Howard was able to accomplish. But I do not think everyone has his talent.
That aside, the pressure by more and more lit magazines and sites for shorter, shorter, shorter annoys and angers me some days. I remember some of the 'Iron Age' publishers that sprang up who declared their irritation towards longer tales and their outrage at such ideas as writing longer tales and my own frustration.
Short stories are good practice, but at some point a writer MUST write long-form. They have to test themselves that way, else they'll never progress as artists. And these publishers who claim to fight for the 'culture' and against 'tiktok nonsense' are wishing only for 'Flash fiction' or 'ultra short stories'.
Now that said, a story can get too bloated (I'm very guilty of that) and so it must often be chiselled away as you point out. I seem to be rambling here (lack of sleep), you always manage to hit the nail on the head A.C. Cargill, I have no idea how you do it but even when I disagree with you (I don't here) I find myself thinking you made excellent points and that there was something to be learnt. I must confess to a great deal of admiration for your clear thinking, and level head, and ability to cut to the heart of something. I fancy that there must be several C.S. Lewises (I greatly admire him) or Robert E. Howards in you.